When Rachel Maddow started talking about Uganda’s anti-homosexuality bill, or what Maddow called the “Kill the Gays Bill,” on her nightly MSNBC show late last month, Lisa Darden knew she needed to make a phone call.
Darden, a filmmaker and talent agent, had been interviewing conservative evangelical Christian leaders and getting a behind-the-scenes look at the religious right for the past several years for her soon to be released movie, For Such a Time as This. The documentary seeks to bridge the gap between anti-gay Christians and the lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender community. In her travels, she had become fast friends with A. Larry Ross, who serves as Rick Warren’s publicist.
“I knew this was going to break before it did, so I called Larry and told him what was going on and encouraged him to have Rick Warren make a statement against this law, because the silence from evangelical leaders was deafening. I told him somebody needs to stand up and this was an opportunity for Warren to be in front of the story or get run over by it,” she told Religion Dispatches.
Her conversation came after Warren had already declined to make a public statement against the pending law, telling Newsweek:
The fundamental dignity of every person, our right to be free, and the freedom to make moral choices are gifts endowed by God, our creator. However, it is not my personal calling as a pastor in America to comment or interfere in the political process of other nations.
Darden believes that Warren’s noncommittal statement revealed that the evangelical Christian community didn’t believe that the Uganda story would be such big news in the United States and that they would not be asked to address it. Darden said she tried to impress upon Ross just how serious this story was, and with Maddow pushing it nightly on her show, how important it would become for Warren to speak out boldly against the measure, rather than dodge the question.
“I gave them a heads up. They didn’t have a clue what was coming down the pike, but I hoped that my call would be a catalyst for them to finally respond,” she said, noting that Ross has subsequently sent her a thank-you note for her involvement.
It would still be several days, and several more conversations with Ross, before Warren would finally issue a video and statement. While other Christian leaders have already been vocal in their opposition to the pending bill, Darden believes Warren’s voice will be instrumental in making a difference.
The truth is right now we need more people like Rick Warren to make a statement like that. It’s going to force other people to say something and we need more and more people saying something and we need more Christians in this country to stand up and say, ‘No, this is not okay.’ We needed Rick Warren.
In his statement, Warren said that he opposes and condemns the Ugandan bill, but also took the opportunity to again reassure his Ugandan followers that while he doesn’t support killing gays and lesbians, he still believes homosexuality is condemned by the Bible and that he opposes marriage equality for gays and lesbians:
While we can never deny or water down what God’s Word clearly teaches about sexuality, at the same time the church must stand to protect the dignity of all individuals—as Jesus did and commanded all of us to do. Let me be clear that God’s Word states that all sex outside of marriage is not what God intends. Jesus reaffirmed what Moses wrote that marriage is intended to be between one man and one woman committed to each other for life.
Even though Warren didn’t pass up the chance to preach against gays and lesbians in his statement, Darden still hopes that his condemnation of the law is sincere.
“If he’s not sincere, we’ll know it, because everything comes to light eventually,” she said.
The value, though, of Warren finally speaking out means that others in the evangelical community will now do the same, Darden said.
“People need permission to do the right thing, and Warren’s statement has given them what they need to respond,” she said.
It is my hope that Darden’s next target will be that other international leader who has so far remained silent: President Barack Obama.
Editor's Note: We have revised the headline of this piece to remove the suggestion that a single person was the catalyst for Rick Warren's statement.
Tags: lgbt, rachel maddow, rick warren, uganda anti-gay law
Candace & Lisa. Love you both. Thanks for helping shed light and perspective on this matter. I agree with the sentiments about the White House. Where is Obama and Mrs. Clinton on the criminalization of gays in Ugnada? Nowhere. It appears Hillary is planning to wait until after this is brought to Parliament in two weeks and voted on before her office will respond.
In the meanwhile, latest news releases indicate the death penalty and life imprisonment parts of the bill will be pulled. But, the other human rights atrocities against gays will continue in Uganda and Nigeria. All this appears to be fueled by much of the religious fundamentalism we continue to export there. It started with our western missionaries and colonialist businesses. Now it continues through religious TV zealots as well as the intricacies of relationships with various U.S. ministries intertwined with Uganda / Nigeria ministries who rely on each other for increased power and financial support. I might also add into the mix, as Rachel Maddow continues to point out, a number of politicians in each country who also share mutual support and are mutually complicit in this issue. Only when they are called to account for their role in such matters, and their power base is jeopardized, do they seem to respond to the real facts and truth.
Death sentences and life imprisonment are not minimal. I am excited to see that we can help affect some positive change to this legislation. However, it is such a small victory in comparison to the rest of the stigma and criminalization that continues to be perpetuated against gays in most African countries where Christianity has some dominance in politics. But, what this small victory is helping to do is expose to the general public in the western world the extreme cause-and-effect results of the same rhetoric that is used in the U.S. against civil rights for gays.
We are seeing the effects clearly in Nigeria and Uganda. Now what is the cause? In small increments, I think the general public is starting to understand the cause as well. You are each doing your part to help expose both the causes and effects. Thank you. Please know it is appreciated by others.
It's just a matter of time before he gets caught. This guy is one of the biggest phonies I've ever seen.
This a testament of our obsession with ourselves and sex. Cheating on ones wife while a violation is not the worst thing a preacher can do. Some people who do not live the faith they preach actually Love their wives.
It seems worse to me to cheat on God. That is what we all do when we pontificate on one point or another about Morality or Christian Love and fail to live ourselves what we say others should.
God asks us to Love Him and to Love our fellow man. He even says we should Love our enemies and those who persecute us. I think that should also go for our fellow men that have difficulty following what they know to be right.
Has Warren not just been caught in an affair with what ever god in his life that blinded him to great harm he was doing by not following God's calling to serve the weak and persecuted.
Men like Warren and Dobson are not people who are likely to cheat on their wives, so they stay in their positions of theological power doing great damage by cheating on God.
Leaders are held to higher standards. If they say they believe that God Loves us and forgives us, they need to find a fidelity to that Love, and Love, as commanded, all people.
Warren is worthy of Love and Forgiveness. But we should not treat him as a teacher or leader when he so clearly is serving other voices than God's. That is no judgment about his relationship with God. Even the man who cheats on his wife, may love his wife.
The question is why do we still give Warren the position of Leadership when he cheats on God and wish to take his Leadership away when he cheats on his wife?
I find this an odd contribution to RD since a movement of outraged people stood up and called Rick Warren to account. It is nice he had someone who could explain what was at stake but I think we should be thanking the collective force of people in alliance who managed to penetrate the mainstream media even and bring this about.
While it's true that there was group pressure being put on Warren, it's often easy to ignore the larger group shouting for you to do something. Often ignoring them empowers you in a weird way - but when someone close to you, someone who can get your attention and your ear, says to you, "Really, it's time to step up and make a statement," that can be far more moving than a collective of voices shouting at you.
Darden was among those close voices asking Warren to do the right thing. We can blog and sign petitions and ask all we want as outsiders - it's those on this inside who often make the most difference. It's good that Warren has someone like Darden who can help him see clearly what the better path really is.
Did Warren do the "right thing?" Or did he do the "profitable thing?" Sure, most of his followers probably don't really care about the LGBT community any more than he does (how do you care about a group of people you think God condemns, really?), but its hard not to think that remaining silent would not have cost him - and I mean dollars. Perhaps his publicist did see the (monetary) downside far more clearly than the "purpose-driven" profit, uh, I mean prophet, could? But hey, judge not lest ye be judged and all that.
Since they are hanging and imprisoning gays in Iran and other muslim places, I wouldn't call this an exclusively Christian influenced problem.
Sometimes I wonder what the ultimate goal of these 'wolves in sheeps clothing' are. They imbue their ignorance, bigotry, and hate upon the impressionable masses here in the US, such that they are formulating their own taliban. It is not the 1% of the Islam nation that the world should fear anymore. The Islamic fundamentalists are to Islam as these False Prophets are to the whole of Christianity. The disgusting bile that spews forth from the mouths of these heretics is abominable.
Warren, and et al(you all know who you are), listen up....
Pick up your KJV and read the words of the living Christ in Matthew 7:20-27. Remember you little devious charlatans, God is watching. What is more disturbing is that you do all this in the name of the Son of God, How Dare You!
PS. Candace, may Almighty God bless you and your work.
So the evangelicals need a filmmaker to tell them what's at stake. They really are stupid, aren't they? Or maybe the truth is that they actually think that LGBTs should not exist, and what better way to achieve that than killing Pathetic.
Thanks you Candace for all of your hard work and for your many articles and dedication to these issues over the years.
This story is NOT about me- it is about Rick Warren choosing to speak out and do the right and Christian thing in regards to the anti-homosexuality bill in Uganda. Rick Warren's statements were his and his alone...if my encouragement to Warren's publicist or any of the many other people who encouraged the Warrens directly helped in anyway to nudge him in this direction- terrific!
I cannot and DO NOT take any personal credit for affecting or influencing Rick Warrens decision to finally speak out against the anti-homosexuality bill. I spoke with Rick's publicist- I did not speak with Rick Warren personally. Several dear friends have been communicating with Rick and his wife Kay for some time now. There have been several statements issued prior. Yesterdays had the greatest impact and was the one that counted most. It was direct and it addressed the issue head on. I pray it will be tremendously effective and positively affect many lives. It was his choice to speak out and it was his pastoral voice that needed to be heard around the world. Thank you Pastor Warren.
There is something I want to make very clear to people on both sides of this issue. As a Christian and a filmmaker my goal has always been to help build bridges. The horrible anti-gay legislation in Uganda was an area of shared interest and common concern. I ALONG WITH MANY OTHERS shared these concerns and were incredibly pleased that Rick Warren chose to lead on this issue instead of follow. He was PRAISED by Truth Wins Out, a group that has been very critical of him in the past. So inroads were clearly made, Rachel Maddow had the courage and the integrity to bring the story out on a national level where it belonged. Thank you Rachel and thank you to all of the people including Andrew Marin, "Love is an Orientation", Michael Bussee, Warren Throckmorton and so MANY OTHERS who have been working tirelessly in front of and behind the scenes encouraging Christians and others to stand up and speak out against this atrocity.
Whenever we can agree and share the common bonds of humanity we should do so. Rick Warren has had deep ties and great influence in Uganda. I approached his publicist several times and have only tried to encourage them in a positive way. I am one of many voices. We all knew Rick could potentially have a major impact. Rick Warrens voice is important because it gives others permission to act and to do the right thing. Before Maddows recent shows on Uganda aired I called Warrens publicist and encouraged him to get in front of and on top of the story before it ran over them.
While we all still don't agree on everything, we don't have to- the key is that we treat ALL people with dignity and respect and Warren's statement was in the Spirit and service of this goal.
My only role was articulating to Warrens publicist apparently in concert with others in stereo the high stakes and the urgency to act now and not later on this issue.
I along with MANY others are very pleased that Rick Warren shared all of our concerns and appreciate the timeliness of his
statements.
Lisa Darden
President/Filmmaker/Talent Agent
Hope Unlimited Productions,Inc.
& HUP Talent and Booking Agency
What crap! You were "pleased that Rick Warren chose to lead on this issue instead of follow"? Seriously? Warren tried to claim it was none of his business and only "spoke out" when he had to because of the many people who pointed out his deep, deep hypocrisy! Your defense of his cowardice is transparent and condescending. Warren is protecting his brand and that is all. Freakin' OBVIOUSLY!
That the message that Warren needed to say something went through his publicist is about all one needs to know.
To suggest that Warren is -- or was -- unaware of what has been happening in Uganda and the rest of central Africa over the last few years is absurd. He has deeply influenced those who wrote this law. He has been called to task for his anti-gay efforts in Africa for years by gays and by liberal groups.
That you didn't know this is, perhaps, quite understandable. To believe that HE didn't know about it is ludicrous.
Hit the nail on the head, BobN.
RD has covered this story at least since Oct. 27th, with Nick Street's blog post, through 2 pieces on PRA/Kaoma's excellent report, and up till today.
See the Rick Warren tag for all the coverage...
It is difficult to believe the back-peddling and smoke screens being displayed on this page by the self-proclaimed righteous. Just how stupid do they think we are? Once again they prove themselves to be sheep seeking desperately for someone to tell them what to think do and say every minute of every day.
“People need permission to do the right thing, and Warren’s statement has given them what they need to respond” That statement is wrong and disgusting for about 100 reasons. It is no wonder the sheep follow these people, with mind boggling rhetoric like that being casually tossed around and no one questioning it.
Every encounter with these people reinforces why I left the flock so many years ago, and makes me happy that I did. I am so much better off without that kind of mind control being pushed on me. My only regrets are for the years I lived under such tyranny. As OneOfTheWatchers stated, they are indeed the American Taliban and we have not even begun to see the wrath they will bring to this fine nation of ours.
My Dear Friend, I implore your better sence...Do not forsake your faith because of these beguilers, rather, find Christ within you, because HE is there!
Well I seem to have upset a few people here after my Setting The Record "Straight" article. That's usually par for the course. You cannot please everyone! To try and do so is foolish. I needed to set the Record Straight for several Reasons. So why don't you relax and read them.
1) I did NOT want people left with the impression that it was me and me alone who influenced Rick Warren- it was NOT. That needed to be clear in the articles. It did take a village to influence him to finally speak out. We need more and more Pastors and people in general to come forward and speak out. The silence was becoming deafening and people were about to get killed, imprisoned and fined for being gay in Uganda. Where would this happen next?
2) There was a hideous, unjust, unfair, immoral and incredibly UNCHRISTIAN Law potentially going on the books in Uganda against fellow HUMAN BEINGS. Something needed to be done IMMEDIATELY. Many of us had been applying pressure in front of and behind the scenes...encouraging him and others to SPEAK OUT NOW! For Rick Warren to remain silent would have been very UNCHRISTIAN and incredibly bad PR. I shared that with a sense of great URGENCY with Warrens Publicist several times and exactly the day before and again 3 more times after the Maddow story broke . Within the span of a week I along with others were sent via email from Warrens publicist the video of Warren speaking out. Fact: The week or so before he didn’t want to comment on another countries policies. Hummm? That’s interesting. Something's definitely motivated him.
3) Wether we like it or not we all know there are inconsistencies and double talk that often comes after an issue is brought to light- Rick Warren has influence in Uganda and here in the United States. Wether we agree with him or not is NOT THE POINT at the moment- the point is to act and save lives and bring this story to the forefront. Please be aware of this fact!
3) Wether Rick Warren is being sincere and sharing Christ's true message of Love, Grace, Hope and Peace or Warren is covering his name/assets or "Christian" brand will all come to light. God knows his heart and I do believe the Warrens have done some wonderful and amazing work and I do not and will not take that from them or speak badly of them. It is not my place or my job to judge them. Am I aware of inconsistencies? Yes. Do I have concerns in regards to the Uganda issue and the change of statements and heart ? Yes. Will it all come to light? The Truth often comes in time. Racheal Maddow and others are doing a good job of covering the facts and following the story. So chill out. We are on a more hopeful and positive course at the moment.
4) If you have something positive and helpful to contribute please do so but bitching and moaning and criticizing people who have been working on the front lines and behind the scenes is counterproductive.
5) Unfortunately blind followers do often seem to NEED PERMISSION to do the right thing. It is a disturbing fact that people do NOT have more discernment and that they often play follow the leader. I wish this were not the case but history proves otherwise. Cultic Koolaide is a popular drink among the “Faithful” and it is often too late before they see the light and the errors of their ways. “In the name of God” is a dangerous game being played out world wide. Let’s wake up to the facts. My hope and Prayer is that Pastor Warren is sincere and that more people will come forward. It would be the right thing to do.
Have a nice day and God Bless!
Lisa Darden
1) You actually thought people would think that YOU were the one that got Warren to engage is little brain before opening his mouth? You really think you're that important? Believe me very few think that little ole you and much to do with this fiasco at all.
2) Warren had to be convinced by a MASSIVE response to his hypocritical and cowardly 'its-none-of-my-business' stance to oppose an un-Christian law that his statements and policies mid-wived in a country whose politics he did not want to get involved in even though he was heavily involved in those politics from their beginning. And yet in your first post you praise him for choosing to lead on this issue. He did not lead - he reluctantly followed like a chastised, petulant child. What self-serving, indefensible BS.
3) It is Warren who needs to learn what the point is, not his critics. Get off your high horse and get real.
3) I think it already quite clear what Warren is protecting. No need to wait.
4) Criticizing the people "working on the front lines and behind the scenes" (such as Warren) who helped and continue to help make this law and others like it a politcal possibility is entirely appropriate and absolutely necessary. Please keep your whiny 'look-at-me-I'm-a-victim-of-mean-ol-bullies' narcissism between you and your therapist.
5) Good thing the top "blind follower" in the world - Warren himself - was finally able to get "permission" to oppose a law that he had previously given permission to his own followers to support. What self-righteous drek.
In short, please shove your self-justifying, hypocritical, and condescending 'defense' of you and yours up your theology.
LOL!
I actually got a few laughs out of this- but why don't you try talking to me personally. Your a real charmer Fitz! I'm not actually interested in going back and forth with you on here . Its ridiculous and a waste of time. But- I'd talk with you privately. I always go directly to the source- it's good journalism and its the best way to get the most direct and accurate information. But what do I know?
If you think I'm not aware that Warren and other groups are going around lighting fires and running away like little children giggling and covering their faces while reciting the mantra "we didn't do anything" your wrong. He has been talking out of both sides of his mouth. Now the cats out of the bag and the spot light's on him again for everyone to see and hear his latest double talk. Its becoming a regular pattern. Two different messages for two different audiences. All you have to do is watch the video's, read his statements and see the "turnaround" within a week. Pressure, Pressure... CRACK!
Rachel Maddow did a great job with the story.
But now we have an even bigger problem the little fire has become a blaze and "The Village" is about to be pillaged and plundered and the "gays" burnt to the ground. Not even Pastor " Purpose Driven Life" Rick Warren- can "save them"
Even after he sent a sweet little video message of condemnation and correction-apparently Uganda is still going forward with the bill. That means the death penalty, Prison for gays and fines and potential jail time for friends, families, people and Pastors who don't turn gays in to the authorities. Isn't that special Fitz? It's actually a holocaust , a genocide waiting to happen. More atrocious "in the name of God" Cultic BS history repeating itself.
Christians are supposed to be leading people to a "relationship" with God not to the death chambers.
If you can "Pray Away the Gay" then it's a choice and it can be cured. Ex-gay ministries and others have shared those messages and now there is a HUGE problem they actually feel justified in promoting this "Holy War against gays". Warren may have actually just poured gasoline on the situation and we had all hoped his speaking out would help . Looks like everyone gets thrown under the bus when you don't agree with them or you change your story mid stream and get caught doing it. It's a clear case of hand over face- "you can't see me".
They think Warren is weak and has now fallen prey to the dreaded "Gay Agenda" in their eye's he's clearly "gone soft" under all the pressure.
1) I NEVER thought I was the ONE nor the only Catalyst - the original article on here was entitled THE CATALYST BEHIND RICK WARREN - I'm not delusional and I had nothing to do with the title- I asked them to change it when I saw it and they did but not until everyone under the sun wrote and rewrote it with that word "Catalyst" in front of it. Of course no one else "checked the story" or asked me ...They just regurgitated it. I wrote my Setting the Record Response because I was getting bombarded and highly annoyed by it all. It was exhausting and a royal pain in the ass. The new title is - ‘Calling’ Rick Warren to Task on Anti-Gay Ugandan Law- Operative word being "Called" because I "called" I called his publicist for the last damn time. I do not actually think I'm that important. So you can can the insults sweet pea.
Do you know what the word Diplomacy means? I was trying to be very diplomatic. But you already knew that didn't you?
I think we have much bigger fish to fry here- if you want to talk- I'll get you and email and we'll chat off line and perhaps a phone call for clarity and less chance of carpel tunnel.
By the way Fitz feel free to stop being such a self righteous and inflated pompous ass. Bless your little heart!
Lisa Darden
Does it mean you might also be talking a tiny bit out of both sides of your mouth so that you can stir things up and hopefully find a new story to document?
Glad your funny bone was tickled by this rather serious subject.
You do not go directly to the source, you go to his publicist. You seem unable to tell the difference. And you call that good journalism. Pathetic. If I had a publicist, I'd have you talk to her.
Given your inability to make a coherent and consistent statement on this issue - your stance seems to be determined by which ever way the wind blows, just like Warren - its no wonder you do not want to go back and forth with me (or anyone else for that matter) in this forum. Why would I want to entertain such idiotic, unclear, and hypocritical verbiage by email, phone, or face to face? Again, if only I had a publicist . . .
This issue requires informed, even angry and righteous, criticism, not self-serving diplomacy. Screw your diplomacy.
I am occasionally self-righteous and sometimes an ass, but never pompous. Warren and his defenders, however, are the epitome of pompous.
True progressives, politically and theologically, need to stop pandering 'diplomatically' to Warren and his self-promoting ilk, along with his whiny, victimized defenders. It only encourages these love-but-really-hate-mongers to continue spewing their thoughtless, shallow theo-politics around the globe. They don't need defending, they need offending. In the strongest possible language, in this forum no less than in others. If they can't handle it - which they can't - then they can tuck their silly tails between their legs and go home.
I can only hope you're serious about not going back and forth with me (or anyone else) in this forum. No need to subject readers any further to your pontifications. Or mine, for that matter.
Have a nice day.
We need people with different opinions and approaches to things here on RD. That is how we get into new areas, and sometimes it can become educational. Just read her two approaches to the Warren situation, and you will start to see what an asset she could be to this website. We need more people who can see things from more than one perspective.
Was being polemical and sarcastic. And, yeah, angry. Sick of progressives pandering to the right. See this happen too often even in my own neck of the woods. We need opinions and approaches based on actual facts. Do not have nor want the power to stop anyone from expressing an opinion here. But my admittedly strong criticism of her "approaches" to the "Warren situation" stands.
Lisa Darden,
I think your posts bring up an interesting idea for a new documentary about the RD website. You were able to support Rick Warren and your small part in helping him see the light while in 3 posts you were also able to switch from diplomatic praise for his work to almost total condemnation of his religious empire. I think this impressive change was due somehow to the power of RD. Reread your posts and see if you can come up with some way to fit this story into a documentary.
Very informative and trustworthy blog. Please keep updating with great posts like this one. I have booked marked your site and am about to email it to a few friends of mine that I know would enjoy reading.
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