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- 8: The Mormon Proposition Gets It Right
- Post by Joanna Brooks
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Now that the widely-reviewed film 8: The Mormon Proposition has left the film festival circuit and is available through on-demand cable—with some rumors of technical difficulties in the Salt Lake / Provo areas—reaction is filtering back from Mormon viewers of the film.
LDS Church spokespeople have dismissed the film as blatantly false.
But what I’m hearing from a number of Mormons deeply familiar with the Proposition 8 campaign is that the film gets it mostly right. [See also Holly Welker's review here. - Eds] Some take exception to editing choices that sequence events out of context for dramatic effect; others wish that the filmmakers had not been so cartoonish in their depictions of anti-gay-marriage standpoints, using only notorious bigots like Utah Representative Chris Buttars.
But most of the Mormon folks I’m hearing from agree: to see this film is to know what we on the inside saw unfolding all around us during election season 2008.
And since then, we’ve seen the costs to our community of claiming to work in “coalition” with others while in fact shouldering an incredibly disproportionate share of the work and fundraising.
The old Mormon pioneer hymn celebrates the virtue of “putting our shoulders to the wheel.” Hard work is a Mormon tradition of which I am proud.
Insider double-talk is not. For when institutional ecclesiastical resources were used to leverage “voluntary” and “grassroots” participation from Church members, the stage was set for the kind of dramas of “revelation” and “exposé” the Church now finds itself beset with—played out on movie and television screens across the country.
For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. What you sow you shall reap. No matter how carefully Mormon political consultants (some of them paid handsomely by Church members' donations) tried to script a Mormon "grassroots" relationship to the Yes on 8 campaign, talking themselves and the members of their insular world into the legitimacy of these arrangements, it was naive and foolish to think that such a campaign could be conducted without significant consequences.
One of these consequences is that the Church has now branded itself as the leading anti-gay-rights religion in the country. That's an expensive bit of turf to hold in an unsustainable legal and political fight. Every day, I read news stories from across the country about Mormons. And let me tell you, this movie alone has gotten ten times more coverage than the Church’s incredible humanitarian efforts in Haiti and the greening of its chapels combined.
Perhaps it is because the leveraging of Mormon "grassroots" participation created an environment of double-talk and secrecy that hearkens back to the polygamy days of the late nineteenth century and reaffirms some of the oldest and least favorable public stereotypes of Mormons as an insular, secretive, manipulative people.
During the campaign season, many of us who were Mormon and supported marriage equality found ourselves in the otherworldly situation of trying to communicate to outsiders the magnitude of what we saw happening inside our Church, only to be met—for the most part—with disinterest or disbelief, or a consistent underestimation of Mormon organizational capacity and discipline.
Well-meaning, politically savvy, liberal friends took one look at my wild, puffy eyes during fall 2008 and would say—trying to be comforting--“I know, I know, the evangelicals are at it too” or “don’t worry, there just aren’t that many of you Mormons in California.”
Ignorance.
It is precisely this kind of insularity and ignorance that a progressive public conversation about religion must confront and, finally, demolish.
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thank you for speaking out
When you read between the lines on internet sites such as this and huffingtonpost, it seems like Christianity is splitting into conservative and progressive camps, and the split is widening partly because these values wars are causing defections of moderates from the conservative ranks and so what is left over there keeps becoming more conservative. Now enter the Mormons. As an outsider, it seems to me the Mormons are trying to show the world they are like mainstream Christians. They want to be accepted into Christianity, but they can't aim for both sides because there is no middle ground. They must choose, are they trying to link up with progressive Christianity, or conservative? I always had the impression the Mormons are trying to impress mainstream conservative Christianity, not the liberals. Does this make sense in your understanding of Mormonism and their relation to the rest of Christendom? Would you agree as an overall group the Mormons must shoot for either conservative Christianity or liberal, because there is no way to shoot for both? Would you agree they are aiming for the conservative flank? If this analysis is correct, this film can't hurt them, it can only help because the more people look down on them, the more conservative Christianity will appreciate their contribution to the cause of conservative values. If the Mormons can make a complete break with the progressive world, they might finally be accepted by conservative Christianity.
The LDS Church supported a very progressive LGBT rights bill in Salt Lake City recently that got very little media coverage. While the media and others are trying to brand Mormons as anti-LBGT, I believe the Church is trying to send a more nuanced message of pro-traditional marriage/still loving of LBGT people. So far I don't think the public is getting that message, but several members of the Church are.
The Yes on 8 people were outspent by the No on Prop 8 people. The fact is, both sides had ample opportunity and resources to present their case to the people of California, and the people of California made their choice. It's not a choice that I agree with, and the church did do significant work on this campaign, but to portray the church as a gay-rights killing machine that progressives ignore at their peril, as you seem to in the last three paragraphs, is inaccurate. If the LDS church had not raised that money, someone else probably would have, and even if that money were never raised 8 still may have passed, since it passed even though the Yes on 8 people were outspent (by at least 20 million dollars).
I also think it's nonsensical that you portray liberals as being hesitant to blame the Mormons for passing this proposition (again, in your last three paragraphs). We were the first people they blamed and demonized (even before the election), and, more or less, we were the only people they blamed and demonized. They didn't want to face up to the fact that people, even in "progressive" states, are hesitant to vote gay marriage into law, and so they must find a scapegoat. "It was those out of state cultists that tricked the people that I live, work, and socialize with into voting for this prop. It was their fault!" That these voters were not tricked, and the realization that many, many hearts and minds must be changed in order for gay marriage to pass, is the humbling truth that all supporters of marriage equality must face.
This movie does get one thing right: it gets across the correct point that the makers of the movie are very bigoted and intolerant of anyone who doesn't wholeheartedly agree with them. They are quick to attack, vilify, and demonize a faith which preaches love and respect for others, using it as a convenient scapegoat, one which they know has been and continues to be vilified and misrepresented by others who are bigoted and quick to judge.
As for the "Huffington Post", what little I have seen of that web site is that it's a veritable magnet for vicious anti-Mormon articles and comments, which are distasteful, disgusting, un-Christian, vulgar. I have absolutely no use for that so-called website.
I can guarantee that the LDS faith will stick to its guns with regards to traditional marriage, come what may. What disgusts me about the anti-Prop 8 people is that their main argument seems to be that anyone who disagrees with them must be an intolerant, bigoted, "homo-phobe" who wants to take away the "rights" of others. There is no middle ground for them, and I see little or no love there in their attitude, or any willingness to compromise or try to understand that one can be for basic human rights for all, but simply seek to preserve traditional marriage as it is.
I really appreciate your article and the clarity of your words. I am not a religious person, for reasons that to a gay individual are obvious.
Mormons as a group were never in my radar. Not until prop 8. I opened my doors many times to "elders" and listened respectfully to what they had to say. Not anymore.
After 8 I went to a protest at the local Mormon Church.
I feel sorry to say this but this church has declared war on a segment of the population for no good reason.
Clearly the Mormon Church is not the only culprit in this moder crusade against gays and fortunately got all the negative press that deserves.
To claim the LDS church is somehow NOT bigoted and homophobic is ridiculous!
One poster claims the LDS church cares about LGBT people.... but wishes to deny them their civil rights is NOT caring nor Christian.
Simply seeking to preserve traditional marriage is such a load of bull 'crap'.
Traditional marriage is NOT in jeopardy!
These same arrguments were used to justify bigoted behavior regarding interracial marriage until 1967 when the Supreme Court FINALLY ruled against such behavior.
It is only a matter of time before this will be the case for LGBT peoples.
Prop 8 might never have gotten this far had the LDS church and all the other Prop 8 supporters had not twisted the truth to play on the fears of so many people. Urging them to vote Yes in order to protect 'the children'. Well who is protecting my children from 'them'???
What needs to be "demolished" is Mormonism, and, indeed, all religion.
And let's start with abolishing tax-exemptions for all the societal parasites.
Religion should be "tolerated," in the sense that people should not be put in jail for professing it. But it should be criticized, ridiculed, and hounded off the public stage. Treat religion just like we treat astrology and flat-earthism.
It's interesting to learn what insiders say about the basic accuracy of the movie. I wish it were possible to know how deeply Joe and Jane Mormon would have embraced Prop 8 as their own if church leaders hadn't organized the movement. I know some California Mormons––otherwise fairly liberal––who felt deeply about it, but their investment seemed all about responding to what "the prophet" wanted them to do.
As for how non-Mormons in favor of marriage equality see things: I have to agree with the other letter that said people blame Mormons first and foremost. The church has gotten a huge black eye from this.
What kind of people shun their own children for telling the truth! The kid says, Mom, Dad, I'm gay. I was born that way". Should Mommy and Daddy say get out and never come back? Parents who know and love their kids also know the Mormon intolerance comes from the ignorance of isolated old men. You know what you have to do. Stand up and protect your gay kid! They need you very very much.
This hate-filled piece of anti-Mormon propaganda should have been titled "Trapped by the Mormons II," or, more to the point, "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion II." Thankfully, the movie is dying a natural death at the box office.
The anti-Mormon ex-Mormon producers of this piece of garbage knew the facts about the money trail but chose to perpetuate the big lie that evil Mormon money deprived them of their recently-invented "right" to redefine marriage and force society approval of their immoral choices.
The Los Angeles Times provides the inconvenient and undisputed truth:
http://tinyurl.com/prop-8-money-trail
"No on 8" (in favor of homosexual marriage) raised $44.1 million, with $13.2 million coming from out-of-state.
"Yes on 8" (in favor of traditional marriage) raised $38.8 million, with $11.2 million coming from out-of-state.
So advocates of homosexual marriage raised $5.3 million (14%) more total than advocates of traditional marriage, and they raised $2 million (18%) more from out-of-state!
If "money talks," then homosexual marriage should have prevailed. Having raised more money than their opponents, and more money, in particular, from outsiders, the losing side is completely hypocritical to complain about "outside interference."
Finally, California Election law requires that the names of individuals who contribute more than $200 be made public. But nowhere does it ask for their religious orientation. To publish such a constitutionally-protected attribute is a gross invasion of privacy, and it resulted in reprehensible acts of retaliation against citizens of California who were blacklisted for being Mormons. Welcome to the new McCarthyism of the left!
Imagine the outrage had anyone tried to violate the right of privacy of those who contributed to "No on 8" by blacklisting them for any similar privacy-protected attribute, such as, dare I suggest, their sexual orientation!
Tracy Hall Jr
hthalljr'gmail'com
As a gay man who grew up LDS and who lives in California, I felt no threat from Prop-8. California law already had domestic partnerships which stated explicitly that all the legal rights of marriage applied to gay couples. The only issue with prop-8 is the word 'marriage' which I already have claimed in my 7 year relationship, regardless of what the state calls it.
As to the bias of this film, it is true that it is one sided. There are plenty of stories of LDS families like mine who accept my relationship fully. My active LDS family has no problem accepting me. I have never been shunned, and I and my partner have felt nothing but love from them. My mother and my partners mother email each other almost daily. And my mother, who is now in her 70s was once on general LDS boards, so it's not like we were a fringe inactive family.
My story is not unique, but it is also not told. I did see a YouTube video of another young man in a similar situation, and it is worth searching for. These are the stories that need to be told.
I would also love to show the side of the gay community which will shun their own because they happened to have been raised LDS, or worse, have conservative views. The hypocrisy is overwhelming,and I know many gay men who were raised LDS who have lost friends and even partners when their "secret" was discovered regardless of whether they have any current connection with the church or not. Simply put, The Mormon community is far more tolerant than the gay community. I am far more ashamed of my gay brothers and sisters than of the Mormons.
If the money had not been raised to put Prop 8 on the ballot, it would never have come up for a vote. For those who may not have heard, there was recently a little shindig in Georgetown. Sure looks to me as if they're congratulating themselves on a job well done:
Canterbury Medal Dinner
I'm sure plenty of folks here will recognize the various faces from NOM, the LDS church, and The Becket Fund among the photos at the above link. The first group got Prop 8 on the ballot, the second made sure it passed, and the third paid for that NY Times "No Mob Veto" ad that was run to show support for the LDS church following Prop 8's passage.
Kinda nifty how that all works, isn't it?
I keep hearing the anti-gay folks screaming about how their religious freedom is being attacked. It would be more accurate to say that the credibility of certain religous beliefs are under attack, and rightfully so. We are all given the right to worship and believe whatever we want. But WHERE in the constitution does it say that our religious beliefs are protected from ridicule? The government should not be in the business of shoring up religious beliefs, which is what this is REALLY about.
Before proposition 8, Mormons were nothing more, to me, than casual clad, friendly young guys, trying to engage in a conversation about religion on the street. I felt included by them because most christianists selectively withhold their literature for unmasked judgmental reasons. While I've never had any interest in discussing religion with any of them, Mormons, or christianists, I thought it was polite of the Mormons to treat everyone on the street the same.
After proposition 8, I haven't seen any Mormons. I'm glad to. If I were to be approached by them, no matter how polite they may be, all I can see is their churches role, and their role too, in the passage of proposition 8.
Through proposition 8, religious organizations have effectively told me how to live my life, and it has pissed me off to oblivion. Proposition 8 is a real law, and has negative, tangible consequences in my private life, and procreation is the most insulting reason I've heard to defend it. The least that religious organizations can do, now, is be honest. If they admitted that they simply don't like the gay, I could roll my eyes, and be less pissed off, but they're cowardly actions to hide their tracks is infuriating, and they won't get away with it!
Miss Brooks, I failed to compliment you. You've shown an ability to see things from the GLBT side, thanks. You're an excellent communicator, and very beautiful too.
Peace.
"I grew up in a conservative Mormon home in the orange groves of Orange County, California. Now, I'm an award winning American religion scholar and writer." -Joanna Brooks
Joanna
Have you thought about how it looks to others for you to herald yourself an "award winning American religion scholar?" Regular folks don't normally walk around lauding themselves. It is very bad form.
I'm not saying what you say isn’t true. The problem is that it’s irrelevant and it’s bloody pretentious. Were you not able to find anyone else to call you an award winning scholar? Even then, it usually comes across better when folks understate their credentials. Let people find out for themselves if you’re credible.
Take Dan Vogel for example. He’s an award winning author that has had tremendous influence in Mormon studies. He is the number one source used by non-other than Richard Bushman in his own award winning biography of Joseph Smith. Dan’s also a grocer. He throws milk all day long for a living. In other words, he is humble and far from pretentious. You would never hear Vogel state that he’s an award winning anything. He is what he is. And that stands for itself. And even if you hate him, you have to respect him.
I wish you all the success and awards you can stand.
Tom Kimball
Another story noted that a Mormon attorney hinted as to why the LDS is so adamant against expanding 1950's era ideal marriage. If marriage equality became law, then leftover polygamists quietly tucked out of sight would arise to demand equality too. That would just be too inconvenient in the prophet's goal of politically mainstreaming Mormonism. The church would have to explicitely renounce polygamy in the hereafter or define themselves as hypocrites or accept polygamy. The prophet Monson can almost taste the power of an LDS/Romney White House, and he can't stand to think that the bad PR of polygamists could prevent that. It's all about him. That's the way continued revelation distorts LDS evolving doctrine.
The Mormon church is not the only organization that spoke up and encouraged it's members to do something. Other churches also did. The only reason that the Mormon church is being demonized is that it's members actually did something. Who would have expected it? Of course the anti prop 8 people would love it if the other side did not excersise their constitutional rights.
I was one of the people who placed fliers on peoples cars in mall parking lots. On a couple of occasions, groups of angry people went by and took off many of them (which by the way is a felony if done in an unpaid parking lot).
I don't doubt that many anti prop 8 people would stoop to violence to get their way.
Having never been a Christian of any sort, I have found the LDS Grouping deeply interesting. Mostly so in the fact that they are the most profoundly american of all the Christians for both good and ill, in core values, in actions, in reinvention of self, in lack of memory, and the rewriting of their history, etc. The corporate approach to religion, social goals, and the magnificent organization has been stunningly successful, here in North America, and in the religious conversion wars elsewhere. The only competition this group truly has is al-Islam. This movie shows the political side of why. Truly interesting.
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Most of the fault lies with the play, which is structured poorly, with characters used for their middle-class bridal dresses stereotype rather than anything resembling real people. There's nothing solid in the Unique Wedding Dresses background and little substance, so the family tragedy Bridesmaid Wedding Dresses and the surface comedy do not hang together. Lines that might have been funny in New York 40 years ago fall flat in London today.
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